Absolute Pitch Education

[KosciaK]

Hello!

I must confess that I was not playing APB for a month or two now. I got a bit frustrated with the game so instead of playing APB I was playing IL or CF. Now after several weeks of not playing any of the games at all because of almost no spare time at all I'm back to APB.
But that's not what I wanted to say. I've noticed something strange lately. Sometimes I hear two or three notes of some song, ringtone, someone whistling, etc etc and the rest of the tune just start to ring in my head. For example: I'm living in a flat so I can hear how neighbour's daughter practice on piano (she's going to a music school so she is quiet good player now). I have no idea what was that tune she was practising but there was three note sequence that were the begining of the Goldberg's Variations main theme. But it's not just the interval that made me think about Goldberg's Variations. Even though I can't tell the notes names I'm 99% sure that it was in the same key.

[KosciaK]

As I wrote in the last message I'm back to APB after a month or two of no playing at all. I was frustrated with the new version - had some problems with C5 and G so because of not being able to demote myself easily I was stuck at blue warrior. I got killed after clearing a row of aliens or two only getting angry that I can't start over with blue cadet "climbing" slowly to these hard chords. That's why I decided to do something different. Found an older version (4.1, octaveless) created new player and started playing.
C levels were soooooo damn boooooring, these very fast melodies were a bit harder but still way too easy. After 20 something waves of yawning I've finally got to the blue levels.
Cadet rank was quiet easy. I was surprised how well I already know G. Then these chords came in, especially 4 note ones. Probably it's because I've never really played enough with harmony. Bass guitar is rather monophonic and there's not much chord playing. That's might be why I have so many problems with hearing separate notes inside chords. I had to concentrate as much as I can to pass warrior rank. Sometimes I was so focused on G I just lost track of C. Probably My ears were just too tired.
Arpeggios and melodies were much, much easier. When they were played faster and target note started to appear in the middle of the phrase it was getting very fun and entertaing. That's why I made it up to Commodore (from Captain) in one go. It was a bit funny when there were both C and G in the sound, or there was C in blue rocket or G on red rocket. Had to play in my head the phrase to hear the correct pitch.
When I will reach yellow levels I will go back to ETC 4.2 and make 2 sessions every day - one with octaveless version on D levels and one with new version learning octaves of C and G

I've noticed big change in the perception. It's hard to describe. In the beginning it was this ringing out of the X-ness, all these little sensations, it was something new. Now it feel like Cs and Gs have always sounded the way I hear them now. There's some new quality inside these sounds that makes them just unique and easy to distinguish from each other. C is just C, G is just G like red is just red and blue is just blue.
Can't wait to start D to see if it will be easier to learn D now after so many hours spent with APB

[KosciaK]

Two or three more sessions and I will hopefully get to yellow levels!

I've changed the mental strategy a bit. Before I was trying to hear the target note clearly (actively) and then give an answer. If I wasn't 100% sure I would play the sound over and over, compare for a couple of times with blue buttons and think "it sounds a bit like that, but maybe not...".
Now I let the target note to be heared, just impulse -> reaction (more passively). I just press the button that seems to be right, without thinking too much, even if I can't actually hear the target note clearly, when I only "know" it must be there. While pressing the button my mind automatically plays again the sound so then (while it's playing in my head) I hear the target note clearly.
This way:
- games are much faster
- I haven't even noticed when the G-ness changed. When I started I was looking for a different sounding G
- I make less errors. The first impression is in the most cases right so if I press the button right away I have no time to change my mind to the wrong answer
- I have no problems with hearing Gs in red sounds, Cs in blue ones and both C and G when they come together.

Another thing I've noticed is that I no longer make the half step errors. Especially with C. It's just C or not. Not "it's close to the C, but it's not C so it must be B or C#"

[aruffo]

Why do you suppose those half step errors disappeared? I've been pondering the question of "height" lately and I wonder how you'd describe your experience.

[KosciaK]

Hello!

Good point.
Let's say it this way: I no longer make half step errors that I'm aware of.

Now most of the errors are when there is a target note in the sound but I couldn't hear it at all, even sense it (this "knowing" it must be there). For example when target note is in the middle of the fast melodic sequence. In blue buttons sequence when I know that it must be there I start to hear it.

Before when I was more trying to actively hear the target note and I was comparing it to mental image of X-ness there were more problems with these half step errors. I was hearing something that seemed very similar to the X-ness I was looking for and I wasn't sure if it's C or B. It was in the range of C, very close and I couldn't tell if it's C and it sounds a bit different because of the context or is it close neighbour of C (for example B).
Sometimes I could clearly hear B (sounding somehow similar to C but definetely not C). Now I just ignore neighbour tones.

Edit:
Here's a picture of what I mean:


Before pitches half step above and below the target note were above the recognition threshold so it caused the halfstep errors.

[aruffo]

Ooooooohhhh!!!

I think you've just given me the answer I was looking for. I was trying to reconcile "height errors" in pitch judgment with the apparent fact that "height" is a function of timbre, not frequency.

Your description of what you did do versus what you are doing seems to suggest that you were using your concept of "tone" to identify the sound rather than of "pitch".

I'll explain more in my next main website update (I just finished ETC v5 and my next update will be a shot at explaining why I think it works).

[KosciaK]

I'm not sure if I get you right if you got me right :)
So I'll wait for the main-page article to see if

Speed seems to be very important part of the new strategy. Pressing the button while sensing the appopriate pitch. Not waiting for the sound to ring out. If I'm not sure I press blue buttons immediately while re-playing the sound in my head. Fast reaction so I give my mind as little time as possible to proccess the sound.
When I was more actively trying to coampare pitches with the mental image of the Xness of target note I was looking for it was (probabely) causing problems when I had to redefine X-ness to make it more precise and more relevant (relevant is not a right word here, but can't think of any other right now) in new contexts it must be used in.

[KosciaK]

Hello!

Two days ago I've finally got to yellow levels (on the old octaveless version of ETC). I plan to play some more on this version until I get a bit more comfortable with D and then go back to the new version with octaves, acceleration and the rest.
I had to use blue buttons a lot in the beginning. And when I say "a lot" I mean a lot. Like my brain was so focused on the new sound I had problems with recalling C and G. Now it's much better. Still on the Cadet rank, sometimes up to Warrior but I can see that every time I play it's getting easier.

By the way I've discovered something truly shocking while playing Interval Loader. I've found out that...
[drumroll sound comes in]
...built in "Piano keys" in APB and IL are...
[now the rimshot!]
...the same!

OK, you can stop laughing now.

[KosciaK]

Unfortunately I don't have so much time for ETC as I thought I would now have. So I'm not able to play the old version with D and latest with C and G. So I've decided to start from sratch again. Now I'm starting levels with C5. I want to disable acceleration so it will take some more time to finish the red levels and help me to learn C better.
The second reason I've decided to only play new version is Chordhopper. I'm addicted. It's so fun game. At first I was confused and I didn't knew what to listen for. Now I feel that there's nothing to listen for, instead I should just let sounds to be heard. While playing the game strange things happans. Sound illusions? In a way. In the beginning I can hear chord qualities, then the common C rings out, then it becomes much easier to hear CEG not as C maj but as the chord with C and G.

[KosciaK]

Week without ETC... Fortunately I had a piano around so I was able to play some Chordhopperish and IntervalLoaderish exercises.
It still surprises me how perception changes while using CH. Listening of how "lowness" or "highness" of the chord is completely irrelevant. While playing these chords on the piano I realised that BDG and ACF are only two half-step away with the same structure but they sound completely different. ACF seems to be so "low" in the range while BDG is not.
CEG changes a lot while playing. In some point you can't trust the quality. It's not "major" any more. It's very odd for me but ACF seems to have much more "major" quality then CEG.

By playing on the piano I've found out that the pitch guessing part after 4 meters is very important part. It helps to switch from chord-quality hearing to pitch-hearing. Chords sounds different before and after this part of the game.

[Joe]

KosciaK's new method of listening during the games describes exactly what I had to do to get past the first pitch. His idea of just 'knowing it's in there' is exactly what I meant by comprehension. He simply recognizes it's there and in effect the note itself, builds in your mind it's identity. You're not actively trying to construct a mental image of the sound and compare it. It builds itself. The design of APB makes you want to actively construct the image because you always have to guess. Just a series of carefully designed recordings that increase in difficulty so gradually that you never have trouble hearing that it's there would work best. Or a computer program where the user can control the difficulty. Always start from the beginning each time until you can start further along easily. How could this not work perfectly and work for everyone, child or adult? And be the minimal amount of time needed? and I think it'd be rather quick too. It is indeed the same principle behind how Andi acquires language.

[aruffo]

Hm! That's an interesting point. It's a sure thing that objects are best learned through active engagement... but a pitch is a characteristic of an object, not an actual object.

Nonetheless, it seems to me that the issue you're describing could remain the same with passive listening. In APB, the listener has to guess whether or not there's an X-pitch present; in passive listening, the listener would have to guess which part of the sound was the X-pitch. I'm not sure it's possible to avoid "guessing" when the target information is unknown.

[Joe]

I don't think there'd be really any guessing involved. The simplest context is just the pitch by itself. So this starts as your target that you're listening for, so the next context is just slightly different, but enough is still the same so you can still identify or 'know' that it's there. Then as the contexts changes, what you're identifying each time becomes more and more specific, it's becoming the chroma that you're identifying. That's what seems to happen to me with APB, but the fact that it's not there every time makes me have to try to compare. And then when I get slighty confused I get sent to the launch pad to further confuse me. The contexts need to be arranged as such so that each time you identify the note what you're identifying with gets closer to the chroma so by the time you're done, the only way to identify the note is by it's chroma. A counting order would give you every possible context, and a grey code order would make it so only one aspect of the context changes each time. Thus keeping you from becoming confused (of course this would make a massive amount of contexts, so just enough needs to be chosen to get the job done) The sound files would literally guide your mind to the chroma, thus, the note identity builds itself. When humans are presented with language that's comprehensible, they have no choice but to acquire it. It just happens. Same thing with what I'm describing. Listen and you'd have no choice but to acquire absolute pitch.

[etaxier]

Comparing would have to come in eventually. If you listen to several "C" chords/melodies, and then move on to G, you'll forget the C sooner or later (probably sooner)...

For me, I feel like the real learning happens when I recognize a note, but choose the wrong one (e.g., I hear "x-ness" but I choose D instead of C). That is, I learn to distinguish one familiar note from another familiar note. The first pitch and even the first few levels of each new pitch are only there to help you recognize a pitch in the first place. My memory for C improved only after I started comparing it to G, and it improved even more with D.

Maybe it would be more efficient to save actual comparisons for the later levels, but it certainly wouldn't make sense to get rid of comparisons, period.

Similarly, it would be REALLY helpful to have an option to start at the beginning of the level, or to demote to a lower class, without moving back a whole pitch! I usually feel terrible about saving a game at General or Avenger because I know I'll just have to jump back a whole pitch or lose a couple games to get back into it.

[aruffo]

I can assure you (Eric) the new game will have that kind of flexibility. I'm annoyed with myself for not having made by now the time to hack it out, but it can't be too much longer.

And Joe, now I think I see what you mean and I agree with what you're saying. I believe it is necessary to have the not-C choice as part of the process because it creates a greater imperative to identify "what am I listening for?"-- and I agree with you that it is an inherent problem that adults will try to solve the problem by "building an identity", as you put it.

That is, I agree with you about the guessing. That's why I'm so irritated with myself for not having written v6 already. In a perceptual-differentiation method of learning, you learn by comparison. The main action of APB presents you with only one sound at a time, so all you can compare the sound to is whatever's in your head (the "built identity"). APB's launch code is actually where the most efficient learning occurs, for exactly the reason you describe-- there's no guessing, because if any one of the six buttons has a C in it you can use that to test the other five-- but right now you only get to that mode when you make a mistake. In the new game, the six-sound comparison will be the main action-- that way, there is no "guessing"; advancement will depend on whether or not you hear the target pitch, not whether or not you remember it.