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Absolute Pitch Education
Share your experiences with the Taneda and Fletcher methods.
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lorelei
Joined: 20 Mar 2010
Posts: 110
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 Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 6:30 am Post subject: |
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| I've sometimes experienced nausea and headaches. This is only if it is really annoying, though. I think the nausea is more common, though. |
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paul-donnelly
Joined: 22 Jul 2005
Posts: 83
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| Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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| lorelei wrote: | | I've sometimes experienced nausea and headaches. This is only if it is really annoying, though. I think the nausea is more common, though. |
As someone who is sensitive to small deviations (anyone else, feel free to chime in), do the pitches in music like this bother you, or does the fact that it's not supposed to fit the same scheme as other music help in some way?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrRx8BFl-24
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YIOZexovcc
(I would have picked less weird composers, but this is what's on Youtube.)
When it comes to AP training, my biggest question (after how to teach it at all), is how one teaches it without creating an allergic reaction to anything but the arbitrary set of notes that have been taught. That would make the cure worse than the disease!
And a side question, how useful is AP to distinguishing notes that haven't been explicitly taught? Could an AP-possessor make a good attempt at transcribing a melody using tones smaller than a half-step? If only quarter tones were used? If third-tones or smaller? |
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lorelei
Joined: 20 Mar 2010
Posts: 110
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| Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 11:51 am Post subject: |
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The first video really bothered me, but the second didn't. And as for how useful AP is for transcribing the melodies you mentioned, it depends on how good their AP is. Some can't tell the difference between 437 Hz and 440 Hz,while others can say if the note they hear is 439 Hz or 440Hz, so it's individual.
As for your question on how to not cause the reaction to the correct pitches the answer is to have everything in tune. |
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paul-donnelly
Joined: 22 Jul 2005
Posts: 83
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| Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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| lorelei wrote: | | The first video really bothered me, but the second didn't. |
Interesting. I wonder if that's because the second has mostly percussive tones and doesn't use traditional instruments.
| lorelei wrote: | | As for your question on how to not cause the reaction to the correct pitches the answer is to have everything in tune. |
What does "in tune" mean to you? Is this in tune?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7tmxHhcH0w |
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lorelei
Joined: 20 Mar 2010
Posts: 110
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| Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 9:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Great question! Perfectly in tune means A4 is 440Hz, not 439 Hz and A3 is 220 Hz abd so on. What is meant by out of tune is dependant on the listener, but using something like a tuner to check how in tune things are is a handy way to train. To the most sensitive listener, something a fraction of a semitone off is out of tune. I don't think I'm quite that sensitive, although I am pretty sensitive though. And yes, that piano is tuned differently. What's weird, though is that equal temperament doesn't bother me on other instruments, though. |
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paul-donnelly
Joined: 22 Jul 2005
Posts: 83
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| Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 2:15 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions. I'd sure like to see a study on absolute listeners' attitudes towards other pitches, but anecdotes are a pretty good substitute.
| lorelei wrote: | | Great question! Perfectly in tune means A4 is 440Hz, not 439 Hz and A3 is 220 Hz abd so on. |
How about other notes? Do you prefer unconditionally a C that's 261.6 Hz (A440, equal temperament), or would a justly tuned C of 264 Hz (making a ratio of 6:5 with A) do as well given that it was played intentionally? I'm wondering if your criteria for being in tune depend mostly on being the notes you recognize as C, as A and not on the relationship between the notes, or if the latter could be a factor depending on context. Presumably if everything was a quarter tone flat, it would cause you some irritation, but I'm also assuming (correctly?) that environmental sounds which will appear at any pitch aren't a source of distress for you. So is a musical context it takes for you to start judging intonation according to your preferred scale, is it something instrument-specific, contextual in another way?
| Quote: | | And yes, that piano is tuned differently. |
Differently as in out of tune, or different as in a different set of in-tune intervals (the scale in this piece consists roughly of a root, minor seventh, minor 13th chord duplicated five times, each a fifth higher than the last, with 3 notes left out (3*5-3= the 12 notes on a piano keyboard), if you're curious)?
| Quote: | | What's weird, though is that equal temperament doesn't bother me on other instruments, though. |
I'm not sure what you mean.
Sorry to be grilling you.  This kind of thing has been on my mind for a while. |
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lorelei
Joined: 20 Mar 2010
Posts: 110
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| Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 3:52 pm Post subject: |
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It is what one is used to hearing that becomes the norm. For the instruments that are not equally tempered, being equally tempered sounds wrong. However, if an instrument, such as the piano, is supposed to be equally tempered, it sounds out of tune if it's not equally tempered. It is not the relationship between the notes that bothers me, it is the nothes themselves.
Also on the environmental sounds that are out of tune, they still bother me to some degree, but I try to ignore them. The most annoying kind of sound is a high-pitched noise like the stealth ringtone for the iPhone. It drives me crazy. Ugh!
Also, for your ear training, I would suggest you use a piano that's well in tune, because if acquiring AP can be managed, it would be dreadful to have your inner standards to be wrong, right? |
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paul-donnelly
Joined: 22 Jul 2005
Posts: 83
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| Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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| lorelei wrote: | | Also, for your ear training, I would suggest you use a piano that's well in tune, because if acquiring AP can be managed, it would be dreadful to have your inner standards to be wrong, right? |
Ideally I'd train in a way that taught absolute hearing without making other pitches seem wrong. I guess it would still be awkward to learn every pitch a half step flat. |
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lorelei
Joined: 20 Mar 2010
Posts: 110
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| Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah I heard about a guy with AP who had a wrong inner standard since the piano of his childhood was tuned like a half step flat... It wasn't pretty.
Plus, you get issues with transposing if you have AP and haven't trained, which makes it even worse. |
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