How to feel the color?

Comments and questions about AP Avenue.
jac
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun Jul 14, 2013 4:41 am

How to feel the color?

Post by jac » Thu Oct 03, 2013 7:11 am

How do you know you are hearing the color?
I mean, i can tell when the color changes from note to note, but for a particular note, can you feel the color just at the time of attack, or just after it or is it a combination of both? When are you ready to tell it out? especially for a piano.. is it more difficult for staccato notes than sustained ones or no difference? My color perception is very basic and growing and needed some confirmation I am listening to the same thing.. In APA when chords are given, the attack is not much clear. The sustain portion is what I listen for.

Apart from the mellow-ness, sharpness etc of the sound are there other things too i felt. Rightwards means thinner sounds and narrower too, lighter. Leftward are heavier and softer and maybe, fluffier?!

Thanks.

jac
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun Jul 14, 2013 4:41 am

Post by jac » Fri Oct 04, 2013 6:43 am

While listening to piano, the color is about brightness/ softness as opposed to while listening to violin sound where the color is more towards vowel-ish parameter (is it subjective?).
I checked with electronic keyboard. Put on the piano sound and reduced the attack. Then this piano sounded like a violin which is faded at start and finish. Now i can't put a finger on what the color is like.

jac
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun Jul 14, 2013 4:41 am

Post by jac » Wed Oct 16, 2013 1:48 pm

melody triggers:

I have seen a lot of progress with melody triggers, using my favorite songs by making a playlist of notes followed by the trigger song so that i can guess and the song gives me the pitch name.

The trigger song or melody seems to bring out the colour of the pitch. Each song has a different mood it helps me to give more attention to the pitch. when listening to a single pitch especially for F and A it is becoming easier to identify. And the song gives a good amount of satisfaction and motivation also. :)

namsabnek
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Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2013 1:26 pm

Post by namsabnek » Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:08 pm

Maybe focus on how some notes physically cause odd vibrations in your body/head and try to remember those sensations. That would be a good starting place for me.

jac
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun Jul 14, 2013 4:41 am

Post by jac » Thu Oct 31, 2013 2:50 pm

Hello namsabnek,
Physically notes don't feel anything for me, but emotionally and logically pitches sure give sensations. Emotional is something the pitch describes to me and logical is something i assign to it. And trying to remember them is the common practice i observed in developing this ability.

Just thinking out loud about pitches:
Honking of vehicles is more likely to be annoying if it is in F# or G. Big buses with an A as its horn are less annoying than buses with F# horn. That's something i noticed lately. Bikes have A and A# commonly.

Also, I'm wondering whether musicians who are fast in learning speaking in foreign languages with good pronunciation and also fairly good grammar are more likely to develop perfect pitch discrimination that much faster.

namsabnek
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2013 1:26 pm

Post by namsabnek » Fri Nov 01, 2013 10:22 am

Interesting stuff Jac.
In case you are interested, the first few notes that I noticed had a physical effect on my body were G2 (an octave and a half below middle C) To me on both the guitar and the piano, it has a notably thumpy quality. Ab3 has a very peculiar way of making my whole head vibrate in a distinctive manner. F# below middle C has that aggressive car horn thing you mentioned. I recognize these tones pretty much every time on piano and guitar.
I would imagine that they are different for everyone, as we have different sized aural cavities and it is merely a reaction to vibration. I also listen for triggers and chroma. A combination of the 3 is usually how I survive an AP eartraining exersise.

jac
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun Jul 14, 2013 4:41 am

Post by jac » Fri Nov 01, 2013 1:23 pm

These vibrations i can feel just while singing/ humming. Like resonance, u know. From low notes to high notes these travel from front to back of the head as a whole.

Just adding to the diversity of thoughts:
Psychologically
Why do children develop perfect pitch when they do?
Children wonder and ponder over it, they have nothing else to do and life need not necessarily get in their way. They do one thing at a time.
When they want it, they just want it. But they also know what they want and what they are going to do with it.
They want to hear a single story every single night, but they still want to hear it. They are never bored with cliches. They have no purpose of memorizing the story, but they mouth the words along eventually.
Mostly whatever you tell small children, they believe it. Nothing is going to shake it.

Adults are not allowed to do these things although there is nothing that need stop them from it. :)

APA pitch A 70th Pk. Me trying to reach all pitches 120 level and then use the random pitch option and exercise with all the twelve. :)

namsabnek
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2013 1:26 pm

Post by namsabnek » Sat Nov 02, 2013 11:21 am

There's a random pitch option? I gotta check that out. I finished all 12 notes up to level 188 where APA starts screwing up.
What a drag! I just checked it out and it defaults to the level you are currently working on. Which in my case are levels 188 and 189, where the pitches go all stupid and unidentifiable. I wonder if there is a work around?
If there is no work around, your idea of only going lo level 120 is very smart as you will still have 66 more levels to go b4 the game starts screwing up.
I have no comment on to why some kids get it or not. Don't have a clue. Something resonates, I suppose and "sticks". Their are lots of different kinds of AP, in my experience . I know musicians who only hear keys, not individual notes. I know a few people who had AP at younger ages and in their adult life one day it suddenly disappeared. I know another guy with AP that always sings middle C flat because the piano in the house he grew up in Cuba had some kind of mechanical problem and couldn't be tuned properly. Donald Fagen, who I had the experience to work with last year, is at age 60 something finally able to recognize keys more frequently than at a younger age. It is a very peculiar thing, indeed. I just try to enjoy the process of getting a few inches closer to the truth...

jac
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun Jul 14, 2013 4:41 am

Post by jac » Sun Nov 03, 2013 4:17 am

wow u finished all 12 notes...
Yes there is a random pitch option. It mixes all the levels on all the pitches and you can work on all of them in parallel. I didn't know in the beginning and went on with red egg till 207Ave. And it is fun when it gets more challenging. IMO, it has a work around: you have to listen more and that's when the chroma to be given more attention :). So it is supposed to improve chroma discrimination i guess. I'm eager each time to see what color the next egg would be. :)

And about various types of perfect pitch maybe because each individual becomes aware of different aspects of pitch or music in general. And they give attention to various details at various point in their lives. Children are much more receptive i believe.

lorelei
Posts: 221
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 7:36 am

Post by lorelei » Sun Nov 03, 2013 10:34 am

I do definitely agree with you about there being different degrees of perfect pitch. I know quite a few people with this skill set and from both talking to them and drawing on personal experience, I would certainly say that you are correct.
I know a few people with this skillset who can identify keys, but not individual notes, or name chords, but not the pitches themselves. Others can pitches and keys instantaneously, but cannot tell if something is sharp or flat, and don't have active AP. I know still others who can tell quite precisely what tuning is being used and can name all the notes in a cluster chord. And some can mentally listen to scores with their well-developed active AP, while others can't. There really is quite a range of AP ability, at least on what I've encountered.
It does really depend on musical background and training- however, it can be moulded and enhanced through practice. I know that mine has gotten better over time and with practice, at least.

jac
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun Jul 14, 2013 4:41 am

Post by jac » Sun Nov 03, 2013 11:11 pm

I have been reading different forums and i see many people have acquired perfect pitch through practice which is just not functional. They can id pitches, but just not in real music. So that much can be achieved through practice. That seems great doesn't it?
Lorelei i guess what u mean by better means chords, composing etc? Rest all you have a well tuned mental piano.. :)

jac
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun Jul 14, 2013 4:41 am

Post by jac » Mon Nov 04, 2013 12:11 pm

10th St.
I played random instruments for a while. Then came back to piano. Suddenly it became clearer. I'm thinking its because piano is my instrument. For a moment it felt sticking to one instrument would help better.

For attaining a functional perfect pitch ability, composing would be a great option. If music were treated like a language, try conversing to increase fluency. Composing phrases and melodies in the head might actually help make the ability more functional.

lorelei
Posts: 221
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 7:36 am

Post by lorelei » Mon Nov 04, 2013 2:05 pm

I played random instruments for a while. Then came back to piano. Suddenly it became clearer. I'm thinking its because piano is my instrument. For a moment it felt sticking to one instrument would help better.
Perhaps? I know that many people with AP are certainly better with their own instrument, or at least in the range of their own instrument- I know some violinists, for example, who have AP but have issues with the low register and a double bassist who has difficulty with the higher registers. But yeah, I suppose it's not too surprising.
Oh, and by better earlier I just meant that some can deduce more subtle things than others, and to different degrees. That's really what I meant.
For attaining a functional perfect pitch ability, composing would be a great option. If music were treated like a language, try conversing to increase fluency. Composing phrases and melodies in the head might actually help make the ability more functional.
I could see that happening. Well, I am a composer myself... I can say that functional AP helps composing in that you can clearly hear things with your inner ear and be able to deduce them without an instrument nearby. I'm sure that composition does help one's inner ear and aural abilities. Something else that could be very good as well for developing these capacities is score reading. It may be easiest to start with something like solo instrumental pieces, eventually working your way up to orchestral works :)

Axeman
Posts: 146
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Location: New Zealand

Post by Axeman » Wed Nov 06, 2013 4:31 am

Lorelei do you mean by score reading just reading the score and trying to hear it internally or listening to a recording while reading the score?

lorelei
Posts: 221
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 7:36 am

Post by lorelei » Wed Nov 06, 2013 4:41 am

Both are useful. Reading a score while listening informs you of what you are hearing, and mentally hearing a score develops your inner aural capacities.

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