Amount of Time to Go Through All 12 Tones

Comments and questions about AP Avenue.
LadyBluebell
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Amount of Time to Go Through All 12 Tones

Postby LadyBluebell » Sat Dec 22, 2012 4:08 pm

How long does it take most people to complete each tone? Time per day, months, etc.

I know one spends a lot of time on C, but is it generally a month, 6 months, year?

Thanks for your insights!

zacxpacx
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Postby zacxpacx » Sat Dec 29, 2012 5:11 pm

Hey LadyBlueBell, I just picked up APA again after a two break leave from ear training. I wanted to give APA a few days work before I attempted to reply to your question. The short answer: it depends. Different people will progress at very different rates. Chris has probably heard the most APA experience stories and he says speed of progression is correlated to existing musical experience.

I am a practicing musician. Right now, I am on level 115 of C, with totally random timbre. My ear training right now isn't focused on APA though. I've been playing with chroma buckets, a game concept I thought up and wanted to test out. I will start taking APA more seriously, and I plan on finishing all pitches to level 150 (which is the level I've heard the next pitch unlocks) by May.

If you are a practicing musician, I think 4-6 months is a realistic time-frame to complete all 12 pitches to level 150. But really, individual results vary a lot. I'd suggest taking a look at the APA forum and read up on other people's experiences.

zacxpacx
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Postby zacxpacx » Sun Dec 30, 2012 2:08 pm

Forgot to mention: how much time you put into APA matters a lot. My 4-6 month time-frame assumes a good 20 minutes a day playing APA.

LadyBluebell
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Thank You

Postby LadyBluebell » Wed Jan 02, 2013 9:50 am

Thank you for your helpful response, zacxpacx. I really appreciate it.

This is actually less than I would have guessed, but I feel I will probably be a good bit slower than you. I started piano at 7, completely by reading. I started my band instrument at 12 & became relatively good at it. I never attempted to play by ear until high school, & my ear was always my Achilles Heel. Since my poor ear was the reason I didn't major in music, I have always wanted to fix it, even though I'm now in my 30s.

You are right - people will progress at different rates. I realize there is really no rush, but I sort of wanted to know if I was looking at a one-year vs a 10-year commitment.

I will see what I can do with APA. Thanks for your help! Good luck to your May goal!

zacxpacx
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Postby zacxpacx » Thu Jan 03, 2013 2:40 am

I don't know if APA improves musicianship or not. I know the goal of this forum and Chris's website, perfect pitch, definitely aid good musicianship. How long will it take for you to finish APA? I'm guessing it's closer to the 1 year mark than the 10 year mark.

How long before we're able to teach perfect pitch? I have no idea... I wonder if Chris has an ETA... To Chris: do you?

aruffo
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Postby aruffo » Mon Jan 07, 2013 1:36 am

Admittedly, it's difficult to predict a journey to an unknown destination..!

zacxpacx
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Postby zacxpacx » Sun Jan 27, 2013 6:08 pm

As a rough guideline, can you say it will be another five years, another decade, or another two decades?

I know you have a general idea of what the destination could be (categorical perception of chroma), but even so, is that not enough to provide a time of arrival?

Another point: Chris, I read on the forum somewhere that once you're able to teach perfect pitch and have learned it for yourself, your research will be finished. With the ability to teach relative pitchers absolute pitch, however, you potentially open up a door to a whole new research: the comparison of relative vs. absolute pitch. For the first time, there will be individuals who have experienced both perceptions of sound.

Example of a Study: Do relative pitchers who have been taught absolute pitch react as negatively to music that is absolutely out of tune but not relatively? People with absolute pitch have a distaste for music in which pitch isn't tuned perfectly, even if the intervals are (Ex. using A = 428 while maintaining the same intervals). While the absolute perception of a relative pitch listener who has been taught perfect pitch won't be able to make sense of the music, feeling each pitch as being "off", will their refined height perception (a level of perception natural absolute listeners don't have) still be able to extract meaning from the music?

I figure if perfect pitch becomes accessible to adults, Chris and other members of this forum will be among the first to acquire it. If Chris is still interested in pursuing music perception research at that time, he'd have a significant head start in studying the differences between absolute and relative hearing. There are a myriad of explorations and studies I could think up with access to adults who have experienced both relative and absolute pitch.

zacxpacx
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Postby zacxpacx » Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:53 pm

zacxpacx wrote:As a rough guideline, can you say it will be another five years, another decade, or another two decades?

I know you have a general idea of what the destination could be (categorical perception of chroma), but even so, is that not enough to provide a time of arrival?


Cutting out the rambling to get at the question.

aruffo
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Postby aruffo » Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:04 am

I'm not sure how one would go about forming an estimate.. although the process is evident enough:

- research principles of learning for similar phenomena
- refine principle(s) into learning process(es)
- try em out

Getting as far as APA took me.. hm.. six years, it appears, from null to finish. Tho' admittedly I've been improving my research skills along the way.

zacxpacx
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Postby zacxpacx » Tue Jan 29, 2013 3:11 am

Six years? That makes me very hopeful =)

The way the research is structured it's hard to keep track of the timeline you followed. But I had always been under the assumption that APA was a decade's worth of work.

Sorry about pestering you with emails Chris. I'm absolutely obsessed with perfect pitch, and I'm extremely driven to see it become accessible in my lifetime. Right now, you seem like the best bet.

With your PhD studies ending in a few months (correct me if I'm wrong), I'll just sit tight, ear train, and write down what I experience while I wait for you to finish up.

zacxpacx
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Postby zacxpacx » Tue Jan 29, 2013 3:12 am

I think one important step preceding those you outlined is:

-research the true perception that is perfect pitch

zacxpacx
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Postby zacxpacx » Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:15 am

It is a few months until you wrap up your PhD, right Chris?

Hopefully :?

aruffo
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Postby aruffo » Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:46 am

In a perfect world, yes. Intervening factors yet unknown could stall best-laid plans.

zacxpacx
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Postby zacxpacx » Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:35 pm

Aww, shucks. Well my fingers are crossed.

zacxpacx
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Postby zacxpacx » Mon Feb 04, 2013 1:12 am

Something I've been meaning to mention for a long time, Chris:

There's an article or two in your research in which you address a specific (I forget the name) enlarged lobe in the brain of people who possess perfect pitch. You chalk it up to them having a enhanced disposition for absolute hearing. Just like a person with larger lungs will have a natural advantage at distance running, but anyone can learn to run long distances.

Over this past summer I attended a series of biology-related lectures at Stanford University. In one particular neurologists lecture, he spoke on London taxicab drivers, who are required to memorize TONS of information as part of their training (it's a lot more rigorous over there).

It had long been observed that the taxicab drivers had larger than normal hippocampi, the area of the brain responsible for memorizing facts, but it was unclear whether only individuals with the enlarged portion of their brain could pass the necessary training or the enlarged hippocampi were a result of the training.

Turns out: people who undergo the training end up with larger hippocampi. 4 years of schooling and their brain adapts.

Just another counter-argument against the potential genetic debacle.


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